23 Nov
2011
23 Nov
'11
4:54 a.m.
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on all bands except 2m from
US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also “worked” JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out anyway??) and apart
from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot of Jamming, even from its own
creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg
216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't gonna happen!!
(W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH
Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt
24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw
65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn’t regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
23 Nov
23 Nov
6:10 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
At 12:54 AM 11/23/2011, SV3AAF Petros wrote:
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL
contest this year (on all bands except 2m from
US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also âworkedâ JT65 logger eme (I thought:
who is going to find out anyway??) and apart
from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a
lot of Jamming, even from its own creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and
W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also?
(VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest
poitn and it ain't gonna happen!! (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been
jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not
ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt 24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy!
(K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold
tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldnât regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions
are at http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
Wow, this is a big misconception by those on the
logger. The stations running in the contest are
not monitoring the logger so have no idea what is
being said. Those that are operating random
operation find signals without need of the logger
and when I find a station (like VE3KH) they call
him. Many stations can call on the same 2500 Hz
window at the same time and not be jamming. I
have copied up to eleven stations calling me at one time.
There can be enough stations such that a couple
can accidently end up on exactly the same
frequency, but it is not done intentionally (its
an accident of Doppler shift). If this were done
using SSB then of course it would be a "pileup"
on the frequency (is that what you are calling
jamming?). This is a contest and pile-ups happen.
I will admit having a lot of stations calling at
the same time can be daunting and challenging,
but one can develop a way to manage them so you
can work most of them. Double-clicking the
waterfall trace will immediately decode the
calling station and you can do this for several
stations in one single minute's sequence. Often
I am in the middle of a QSO exchange and see
others traces so I double-click to display
them. After I complete my contact I have those
stations on my computer screen to chose from to
call next. The important thing is that other
stations keep calling at the same time one is in
QSO so you can keep track of them (can't work them if you can't see them).
Its Larry's option whether to participate with
stations in the contest or not. I do eme to make
contacts and doesn't matter to me if a contest is
on or not. EME contests are supposed to be about
stimulating activity. I know many like the
competition aspect but that does not lessen the
fact more stations get on during contests.
I guess those on the logger may be protesting the
rules on assistance. Fine, but that does not
mean those in the contest that call them are
"jamming" them. Everyone shares the digital sub-band: 144.100-144.160 (or so).
If more than one stations calls on CW, is that jamming?
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa(a)gmail.com
======================================
11:35 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
Ed
We just cant win !! We either have no activity for weeks or too much activity ( QRM like
HF contests ).
I will take the QRM over the no activity anyday. Ill bet since
I am off for the next 5 days for the holiday weekend I wont find any activity.
Jeff K7XQ
-----Original Message-----
From: moon-net-bounces(a)mailman.pe1itr.com [mailto:moon-net-bounces@mailman.pe1itr.com] On
Behalf Of Edward R. Cole
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 3:10 AM
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: Re: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
At 12:54 AM 11/23/2011, SV3AAF Petros wrote:
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL
contest this year (on all bands except 2m from
US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also “worked†JT65 logger eme (I thought:
who is going to find out anyway??) and apart
from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a
lot of Jamming, even from its own creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and
W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also?
(VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest
poitn and it ain't gonna happen!! (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been
jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not
ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt 24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy!
(K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold
tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn’t regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions
are at http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
Wow, this is a big misconception by those on the
logger. The stations running in the contest are
not monitoring the logger so have no idea what is
being said. Those that are operating random
operation find signals without need of the logger
and when I find a station (like VE3KH) they call
him. Many stations can call on the same 2500 Hz
window at the same time and not be jamming. I
have copied up to eleven stations calling me at one time.
There can be enough stations such that a couple
can accidently end up on exactly the same
frequency, but it is not done intentionally (its
an accident of Doppler shift). If this were done
using SSB then of course it would be a "pileup"
on the frequency (is that what you are calling
jamming?). This is a contest and pile-ups happen.
I will admit having a lot of stations calling at
the same time can be daunting and challenging,
but one can develop a way to manage them so you
can work most of them. Double-clicking the
waterfall trace will immediately decode the
calling station and you can do this for several
stations in one single minute's sequence. Often
I am in the middle of a QSO exchange and see
others traces so I double-click to display
them. After I complete my contact I have those
stations on my computer screen to chose from to
call next. The important thing is that other
stations keep calling at the same time one is in
QSO so you can keep track of them (can't work them if you can't see them).
Its Larry's option whether to participate with
stations in the contest or not. I do eme to make
contacts and doesn't matter to me if a contest is
on or not. EME contests are supposed to be about
stimulating activity. I know many like the
competition aspect but that does not lessen the
fact more stations get on during contests.
I guess those on the logger may be protesting the
rules on assistance. Fine, but that does not
mean those in the contest that call them are
"jamming" them. Everyone shares the digital sub-band: 144.100-144.160 (or so).
If more than one stations calls on CW, is that jamming?
73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa(a)gmail.com ======================================
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
12:31 p.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] EME on 70 cm and 23 cm
I have a real newbie question if I may:
I have a small system that has been working great on 2 meters. Four
7-elemant yagis and 1 kW has been a lot of fun on JT, and I hope to make
more CW QSOs as I continue to tweak my system.
I would however like to experiment some with 70 cm and 23 cm.
For 70 cm I have an M2 436CP30 ( 10 dBiC gain ) satellite antenna and
SSB preamp at the tower. With the current gains and losses, I have
roughly 700 watts ERP on 70 cm. Receiver will be either my stock Kenwood
TS-2000X or a Funcube Dongle running MAP65.
On 23 cm I have a Directive Systems loop yagi ( 14 dB gain ) and, sadly,
no preamp currently in line. With the TS-2000X barefoot, I only have 700
watts ERP on 23 cm. I had planned to only try receive experiments on 23
cm with either the Kenwood or the Funcube Dongle.
My question is this, can I reasonably expect to hear or work anyone on
either of these bands with this minimal setup, or am I wasting my time?
Thanks and VY 73,
Bob W1ICW
9:27 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
Hi Petros
Can we assume the one / those who do it, per the logger exchanges' reference in your
mail below, are inspired by Bob Marley’s ‘Jamming’ and want to jam it with the
stations' ?? Well, nice song in the get together/have fun spirit. But where is ham
radio courtesy in the contest context, instead of troubling with frustration stations
facing such jamming ?? :-(
The lyrics apparently match the actions described...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA
We're jamming
I wanna jam it with you,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope you like jamming too
Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow
I and I will see you through,
'Cos every day we pay the price with a little sacrifice
Jamming till the jam is through.
We're jamming
To think that jamming was a thing of the past,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope this jam is gonna last
73
Jimmy SV1BTR
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:54:35 -0800
From: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on all bands except 2m from
US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also “worked” JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out anyway??) and apart
from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot of Jamming, even from its own
creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg
216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't gonna happen!!
(W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH
Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt
24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw
65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn’t regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
_______________________________________________ Moon mailing list Moon(a)moonbounce.info
http://www.moonbounce.info/mailman/listinfo/moon Please enter/update your standings:
http://www.vhf-dx.net/top.html When you decide to remain anonymous I may consider this
unpolite and remove you from the list
10:12 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi Guys
I had been deleting these messages . but now upon closer inspection I see
was involved !
For clarity .
I was working W7IUV, and a couple of other stations also tried to call me
and Larry on top of us during our QSO . some XIT offset would have
appreciated . I don't believe any misintentions were intended by the callers
. they simply wanted contest QSO's. I am sure that I was that aggressive in
my earlier EME days!
Subsequently, I was running with Benni TF3CY for a needed new DXCC for me .
another station repeatedly called me on top of Benni making his weaker
signal impossible to decode. The offending station finally gave up, but not
before sending the message "IDIOTS" . which I found humorous but not really
appropriate just because my priorities were different than theirs!
All in all . I had a great time . it's great to be back on EME. I am blown
away by how far the technology has come . I sure wish their were tools like
MAP65 and LiveCQ back when I had my big XPOL array . sigh!
73 Kevin
From: moon-bounces(a)moonbounce.info [mailto:moon-bounces@moonbounce.info] On
Behalf Of jimmyv(a)hol.gr
Sent: November-23-11 9:28 AM
To: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com; moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: Re: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi Petros
Can we assume the one / those who do it, per the logger exchanges' reference
in your mail below, are inspired by Bob Marley's 'Jamming' and want to jam
it with the stations' ?? Well, nice song in the get together/have fun
spirit. But where is ham radio courtesy in the contest context, instead of
troubling with frustration stations facing such jamming ?? :-(
The lyrics apparently match the actions described...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA
We're jamming
I wanna jam it with you,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope you like jamming too
Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow
I and I will see you through,
'Cos every day we pay the price with a little sacrifice
Jamming till the jam is through.
We're jamming
To think that jamming was a thing of the past,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope this jam is gonna last
73
Jimmy SV1BTR
_____
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:54:35 -0800
From: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on all bands
except 2m from US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time
for it.
I also "worked" JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out
anyway??) and apart from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot of
Jamming, even from its own creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg
216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj
24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't gonna
happen!! (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a few
stations (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry
VA FM16qt 24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw
65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM
DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn't regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
_______________________________________________ Moon mailing list
Moon(a)moonbounce.info http://www.moonbounce.info/mailman/listinfo/moon Please
enter/update your standings: http://www.vhf-dx.net/top.html When you decide
to remain anonymous I may consider this unpolite and remove you from the
list
10:47 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] [Moon] EME Jamming
Well it is not unusual to have 2 stations working on the same frequency.It happens to me
at times. You simply reduce the TOLL from 600hz to whatever as low as 10hz. If you are
calling CQ you just have to double click on the lines you see in the waterfall &
voila !!!! NOT a big deal
Taking into account that the doppler also plays a part being really on the same frquency
is almost impossible or unlikekly
Serge VE1KG(SPECIAL ADVISOR ON JT PRACTICES)
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Hobbs
To: jimmyv(a)hol.gr ; sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com ; moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com ;
moon(a)moonbounce.info
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi Guys
I had been deleting these messages . but now upon closer inspection I see was involved
!
For clarity .
I was working W7IUV, and a couple of other stations also tried to call me and Larry on
top of us during our QSO . some XIT offset would have appreciated . I don't believe
any misintentions were intended by the callers . they simply wanted contest QSO's. I
am sure that I was that aggressive in my earlier EME days!
Subsequently, I was running with Benni TF3CY for a needed new DXCC for me . another
station repeatedly called me on top of Benni making his weaker signal impossible to
decode. The offending station finally gave up, but not before sending the message
"IDIOTS" . which I found humorous but not really appropriate just because my
priorities were different than theirs!
All in all . I had a great time . it's great to be back on EME. I am blown away by
how far the technology has come . I sure wish their were tools like MAP65 and LiveCQ back
when I had my big XPOL array . sigh!
73 Kevin
From: moon-bounces(a)moonbounce.info [mailto:moon-bounces@moonbounce.info] On Behalf Of
jimmyv(a)hol.gr
Sent: November-23-11 9:28 AM
To: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com; moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: Re: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi Petros
Can we assume the one / those who do it, per the logger exchanges' reference in your
mail below, are inspired by Bob Marley's 'Jamming' and want to jam it with the
stations' ?? Well, nice song in the get together/have fun spirit. But where is ham
radio courtesy in the contest context, instead of troubling with frustration stations
facing such jamming ?? :-(
The lyrics apparently match the actions described...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA
We're jamming
I wanna jam it with you,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope you like jamming too
Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow
I and I will see you through,
'Cos every day we pay the price with a little sacrifice
Jamming till the jam is through.
We're jamming
To think that jamming was a thing of the past,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope this jam is gonna last
73
Jimmy SV1BTR
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:54:35 -0800
From: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on all bands except 2m
from US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also "worked" JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out anyway??)
and apart from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot of Jamming, even from its
own creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg
216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't gonna happen!!
(W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH
Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt
24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw
65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn't regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
_______________________________________________ Moon mailing list Moon(a)moonbounce.info
http://www.moonbounce.info/mailman/listinfo/moon Please enter/update your standings:
http://www.vhf-dx.net/top.html When you decide to remain anonymous I may consider this
unpolite and remove you from the list
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Moon mailing list
Moon(a)moonbounce.info
http://www.moonbounce.info/mailman/listinfo/moon
Please enter/update your standings:
http://www.vhf-dx.net/top.html
When you decide to remain anonymous I may consider this unpolite and remove you from
the list
11:43 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] [Moon] EME Jamming
In all fairness, it is a good idea to offset
200-Hz up or down in freq. so that there is less
chance of landing on top of the working
station. But, unless you are willing to
calculate 2-way Doppler offsets for all parties
your chances are just as good that you will
achieve the opposite and land on someone. It is
frustrating if you are struggling to work a weak or Faraday rotated signal.
The thing folks on loggers do, in that case, is
to post this fact on the logger to ask the
offending station to QRX a bit. I think this is
where the feeling come that there is discourtesy
being done. But the ARRL Contest prohibits use
of the logger so the contesters are unaware of
anything being posted. Posting anything would
invalidate their entry in the contest. In my
opinion reading anything is also against the
current rules. (The RULES need to change to
create a SEPARATELY SCORED contest category for Assisted operation).
ON Sunday after I QRT, I brought up the N0UK
Logger to see what was happening and saw a couple
posts were sent to me (which I was previously
unaware of). They were an hour old so I did not
try responding and did not type anything on the
logger. I could see only a few stations still
running and decided that my decision to end operations was good.
Operating strictly random I know I missed some
stations. I was not using MAP65, so my search
was clunky. Tune to a frequency and watch for
4-min; tune to another freq. and watch
4-min. You can waste a lot of operating time
this way, so mostly I called CQ on my calling
freq. 144.116 (no I don't own it but I post it in
advance so folks have a place to look for
me). The same process has been traditional for years on CW.
73, Ed
PS: I had fun even with all the murphy challenges!
declination will be good again starting Dec. 5-15.
At 06:47 AM 11/23/2011, serge wrote:
Well it is not unusual to have 2 stations
working on the same frequency.It happens to me
at times. You simply reduce the TOLL from 600hz
to whatever as low as 10hz. If you are calling
CQ you just have to double click on the lines
you see in the waterfall & voila !!!! NOT a big deal
Taking into account that the doppler also plays
a part being really on the same frquency is almost impossible or unlikekly
Serge VE1KG(SPECIAL ADVISOR ON JT PRACTICES)
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:ve3kh@cogeco.ca>Kevin Hobbs
To: <mailto:jimmyv@hol.gr>jimmyv@hol.gr ;
<mailto:sv3aaf@yahoo.com>sv3aaf@yahoo.com ;
<mailto:moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com>moon-net@mailman.pe1itr.com
; <mailto:moon@moonbounce.info>moon@moonbounce.info
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi Guys
I had been deleting these messages
but now
upon closer inspection I see was involved !
For clarity
I was working W7IUV, and a couple of other
stations also tried to call me and Larry on top
of us during our QSO
some XIT offset would
have appreciated
I dont believe any
misintentions were intended by the callers
they simply wanted contest QSOs. I am sure that
I was that aggressive in my earlier EME days!
Subsequently, I was running with Benni TF3CY for
a needed new DXCC for me
another station
repeatedly called me on top of Benni making his
weaker signal impossible to decode. The
offending station finally gave up, but not
before sending the message IDIOTS
which I
found humorous but not really appropriate just
because my priorities were different than theirs!
All in all
I had a great time
its great to
be back on EME. I am blown away by how far the
technology has come
I sure wish their were
tools like MAP65 and LiveCQ back when I had my big XPOL array
sigh!
73 Kevin
From: moon-bounces(a)moonbounce.info
[mailto:moon-bounces@moonbounce.info] On Behalf Of jimmyv(a)hol.gr
Sent: November-23-11 9:28 AM
To: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com; moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: Re: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi Petros
Can we assume the one / those who do it, per the
logger exchanges' reference in your mail below,
are inspired by Bob Marleys Jamming and want
to jam it with the stations' ?? Well, nice song
in the get together/have fun spirit. But where
is ham radio courtesy in the contest context,
instead of troubling with frustration stations facing such jamming ?? :-(
The lyrics apparently match the actions
described...
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA
We're jamming
I wanna jam it with you,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope you like jamming too
Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow
I and I will see you through,
'Cos every day we pay the price with a little sacrifice
Jamming till the jam is through.
We're jamming
To think that jamming was a thing of the past,
We're jamming, jamming
And I hope this jam is gonna last
73
Jimmy SV1BTR
----------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:54:35 -0800
From: sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com
To: moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com; moon(a)moonbounce.info
Subject: [Moon] EME Jamming
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL
contest this year (on all bands except 2m from
US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also worked JT65 logger eme (I thought: who
is going to find out anyway??) and apart from
constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot
of Jamming, even from its own creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and
W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also?
(VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest
poitn and it ain't gonna happen!! (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been
jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not
ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt 24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy!
(K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold
tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldnt regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
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73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa(a)gmail.com
======================================
4:09 p.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] [Moon] EME Jamming
Ed,
NO, it is not hard at all.
Although we all experience different Doppler shifts,
the RELATIVE positions of all stations transmitting are the same
for everyone, only the absolute offset of the whole waterfall changes.
It is a simple matter to choose where you want your signal to fall
in a gap on YOUR waterfall, then check your own Doppler
(and watch your echo if you can see it) to put your signal there.
You will be in the same gap on EVERYONE's waterfall,
though the absolute DF will be different.
What you can't control is interfering with a station you can't see
if he is coming in with the wrong polarization, and you don't have
HV antennas.
It is also relatively simple to calculate IN YOUR HEAD where your
signal will appear on a Dx station's waterfall. This is a useful
skill, so that you can place your signal high or low, and know
that it will not be off the edge of the Dx station's waterfall.
I guess I should write up something on my web pages sometime ...
Guy VK2KU
On 24/11/2011 3:43 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
In all fairness, it is a good idea to offset 200-Hz up
or down in freq.
so that there is less chance of landing on top of the working station.
But, unless you are willing to calculate 2-way Doppler offsets for all
parties your chances are just as good that you will achieve the opposite
and land on someone.
4:20 p.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] [Moon] EME Jamming
Hi all
What is especially true of the below, by Guy, is for single-yagi stations
where only the strongest stations would appear at any given time - i had
the same issue this weekend when trying to call RU1AA and UA3PTW - a lot of
stations calling them too and so i'm sure a possible overlap of signals did
exist, especially with my own..
Jamming is a real possibility but 99% (i give the benefit of the doubt as
usual) of the time, i would admit that it's caused by accident.
Best regards,
Alex - F/SV1NZX
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Guy VK2KU <vk2ku(a)clearmail.com.au> wrote:
Ed,
NO, it is not hard at all.
Although we all experience different Doppler shifts,
the RELATIVE positions of all stations transmitting are the same
for everyone, only the absolute offset of the whole waterfall changes.
It is a simple matter to choose where you want your signal to fall
in a gap on YOUR waterfall, then check your own Doppler
(and watch your echo if you can see it) to put your signal there.
You will be in the same gap on EVERYONE's waterfall,
though the absolute DF will be different.
What you can't control is interfering with a station you can't see
if he is coming in with the wrong polarization, and you don't have
HV antennas.
It is also relatively simple to calculate IN YOUR HEAD where your
signal will appear on a Dx station's waterfall. This is a useful
skill, so that you can place your signal high or low, and know
that it will not be off the edge of the Dx station's waterfall.
I guess I should write up something on my web pages sometime ...
Guy VK2KU
On 24/11/2011 3:43 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
In all fairness, it is a good idea to offset
200-Hz up or down in freq.
so that there is less chance of landing on top of the working station.
But, unless you are willing to calculate 2-way Doppler offsets for all
parties your chances are just as good that you will achieve the opposite
and land on someone.
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
12:42 p.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] [Moon] EME Jamming
Since I am the subject of these posts, I thought I might I might respond
with my viewpoint.
Due to the size of the data input field and the refresh rate of the
logger, it's best to make posts as succinct as possible. Unfortunately
succinct posts can easily be misconstrued especially when quoted out of
context.
Here is what happened from my viewpoint:
At the time in question I was mostly looking for new stations to work on
432 JT. Since the moon had set in Europe this was pretty boring and
unproductive, so I was also responding to a few emails, working DX on HF
CW and monitoring the N0UK logger. ( Note that this multi-tasking would
not be an option if I were on CW EME!) On the logger, I saw that Kevin,
VE3KH was calling CQ (on 144) and had been for quite some time on the
same frequency. Kevin, being relatively "fresh meat" had a small pile up
going and was doing a great job working through it.
Since I had not previously worked Kevin, I fired up the 144 station and
gave him a call. When he came back to me, two other stations immediately
zeroed on his frequency and called me. This action was deliberate,
caused QRM, and had the effect of disrupting Kevin's apparent goals (IE
working me in an efficient manner since I lost his signal one period).
Furthermore, if I had responded to one or both of those stations, it
would have probably impaired Kevin's ability to make additional QSO's on
that frequency for some minutes.
So I ask, does this meet Gerald's definition of "jamming"?
Contest types have the habit of dismissing
inappropriate/obnoxious/annoying behavior as something you should expect
in a contest. Why??
I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the offending stations
involved were being operated by "hired guns". Operating anonymously
behind another call sign seems to give people license to be obnoxious.
Note that I do not consider multiple stations answering a CQ to be
"jamming" or even real QRM for that matter. I have the ability to deal
with multiple callers both on JT and CW and when I get multiple callers
from my own CQ I am delighted. This is not the same as having some fool
try to work one of my callers over the top of me!
As far as not giving those offending stations a contest point, even if I
were actively contesting I would not enable inappropriate behavior by
answering them.
73,
Larry - W7IUV
11 Dec
11 Dec
10:40 p.m.
New subject: Offset vs prime focus
I have a 3m offset dish and an ~3.5m mesh TVRO dish. Am I giving up enough
gain (looks like about 1.5db) at 1.2/2.4g to be concerned about if I go
with the 3m offset? I would expect the offset would have the advantage of
less feed blockage and it definitely has better surface accuracy if I
decide to operate higher in frequency.
73, Robert KR7O/YB2ARO, DM07ba/OI52ee (ex. N7STU)
DXCC 6M #1122
WAZ 6M #112
VUCC 6M, 2M
www.vhfdx.com (KR7O/YB2ARO pages)
Looking for old VHF QSL cards and logbooks.
23 Nov
23 Nov
11:16 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
I wouldn't fret this too much. It is not uncommon to (for me anyway) to quickly
realize certain stations I attempt to qso are on a logger.
This last weekend I observed a certain VE station jumping jumping all over the band
calling another dxcc. I made my share of attempts to qso the VE station yet after just a
few calls, they would oddly show up somewhere else, calling the same dxcc instead of just
answering me and then going on with their business. It doesn't take a lot of science
to understand someone is hearing you but doesn't want to work you.
As far as jamming, Larry would have to give his reason *why* he chooses not to contest,
not to hand out a point to certain stations, whether he just doesn't want to hand out
any contest points...or perhaps it is a "logger" thing. Maybe even some other
reason. Doing so is his choice.
There is some strange beliefe with many of the logger crowd that JT becomes difficult with
more than one caller on a frequency. I am at a loss as to why this is so, as that is
certainly a false thinking.
Personally, I think the whole logger arena festers in bad practices, misunderstandings of
operating ability, way too much third party reporting and a host of other bads.
Jeremy w7eme
________________________________
From: SV3AAF Petros <sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com>
To: "moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com" <moon-net(a)mailman.pe1itr.com>om>;
"moon(a)moonbounce.info" <moon(a)moonbounce.info>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:54 AM
Subject: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on all bands except 2m from
US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a lot of free time for it.
I also “worked” JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out anyway??) and apart
from constant chatter I also found JAMMING.... a lot of Jamming, even from its own
creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg
216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't gonna happen!!
(W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a few stations (VE3KH
Kevin
ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him (KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt
24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw
65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn’t regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
_______________________________________________
Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at
http://www.nlsa.com/nets/moon-net-help.html
8:50 p.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] EME Jamming
Petros and others.
While I concentrated my efforts down in the CW end of the band, I also
made some excursions into the Digital segment.
There were some new DXCC/Grids/WAS (for me) QRV. Most not running big
systems. I like a good challenge.
Whilst calling them, I too had Big stations calling me whilst the QSO
was in progress.
However after the QSO I went to the other station only to have them
stop calling me. OK maybe conditions had changed. But they had XPOL
This happened on a number of occasions. On the different QRG's that I
was operating/calling on.
One time I stopped calling the station to reply to the Big station, so
that they wouldn't call me again, and to give them points. Also
enabling me to get on with working new DXCC/Grids/WAS. The Big
station had only called me for one sequence. As soon as I replied to
them, they stopped calling me. Even with prolonged calling, there was
no response. OK maybe conditions had changed (?!). Maybe they had
found another station to try and work. Really?
So I decided to call CQ. Surely their MAP65 etc would find me.
Obviously they had MAP65, to find me in the first place. No QSO's
eventuated with those that were concurrently calling me earlier, they
didn't respond to my CQ.
Are these stations hunt and pounce??? Does this procedure work??
If so why only call for one seq and then stop? Were they seriously
trying to contact me??
Many Big Guns published their QRG prior to the contest and stayed
there. Everyone knew where they were and they had many QSO's.
By the logger extracts, looks like a few other people were having
similar or worse experiences. I also saw simmilar postings to what
you saw.
OK everyone is entitled to their own unique operating methods. Not
everyone was participating in the contest and not everyone was looking
at the logger.
But it seemed to me that some were causing conflict, especially with
"The offending station finally gave up, but not before sending the
message "IDIOTS" ."
Huh!!!!!!!
Yes courtesy was reduced from normal. Is this what Contests do? BTW
this was my first ARRL EME contest that I had partcicpated in. Next
year I may not migrate up into the higher segment.
I enjoyed the Contest and pleased with my result, despite my experiences.
I look forward to the next one and to future ATP weekends.
Regards
Wayne
Quoting SV3AAF Petros <sv3aaf(a)yahoo.com>om>:
Hello moonbouncers,
There was very nice CW activity during ARRL contest this year (on
all bands except 2m from US) and it is unfortunate I did not have a
lot of free time for it.
I also ?worked? JT65 logger eme (I thought: who is going to find out
anyway??) and apart from constant chatter I also found JAMMING....
a lot of Jamming, even from its own creator!!?
Check a small part of it from N0UK logger:
11/19 17:04 VE3KH you being jammed by K1JT and W6YX (W7IUV Larry WA
DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:05 Why Larry .... they on 142 also? (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj
24.141.203.45)
11/19 17:06 They are calling me to get a contest poitn and it ain't
gonna happen!! (W7IUV Larry WA DN07dg 216.215.40.193)
11/19 17:08 Thansk Larry 73 ... Yes, I have been jumped by a quite a
few stations (VE3KH Kevin ON FN03aj 24.141.203.45)
11/20 17:47 Also hr k1jt calling me -22 but not ans him
(KN4SM/5WL/KW Jerry VA FM16qt 24.241.251.86)
11/20 18:02 Contest = reduced courtesy! (K5DOG/2M Stevedog NM DM52xw
65.127.140.122)
11/20 18:04 Yes, K1JT and W3SZ can hear on gold tooth. (K5DOG/2M
Stevedog NM DM52xw 65.127.140.122)
One thing I wouldn?t regret missing on EME is JAMMING!!!
GL 73, Petros SV3AAF
1 Dec
1 Dec
8:47 p.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] 2m CW DUBUS Activity Event
All
Would just like to inform you that there is a 2m CW DUBUS Activity
Event this weekend.
Times
Dec 3 1200-1500 GMT
Dec 3 2030-2330 GMT
Further details of the 2m ATP can be found here:
http://www.sm2cew.com/dubus-aw.html
Also for those that operate on 432Mhz, the next event is on Dec 11.
Further details of the 70cm ATP can be found here:
http://www.sm2cew.com/dubus-aw-70.html
These dates being the last for 2011.
Regards
Wayne
VK5APN
PF95JG
http://people.aapt.net.au/~pearsons/
2 Dec
2 Dec
2:20 a.m.
New subject: [Moon-net] 2m CW DUBUS Activity Event
Hello all,
Tomorrow december 03, i'll be active during the 2m eme ATP.
Due my usual football commitments, I should be active only
the 1st hour on the 12:00 - 15:00 UTC slot and full time
on 20:30 - 23:30 UTC slot.
I wish to hear lot of you, old and new friends.
Good luck on eme. I'll preferably answer to your Cqs, or
call mainly around 144.056.
73' Francesco,IK2DDR
3460
days inactive
4210
days old
15 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Alex SV1NZX -
Bob DeVarney W1ICW -
COMINELLI Franco -
Edward R. Cole -
Guy VK2KU -
Jeremy Alexander -
jimmyv＠hol.gr -
K7XQ -
Kevin Hobbs -
kr7o＠vhfdx.com -
Larry -
serge -
SV3AAF Petros -
vk5apn＠aapt.net.au